DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.
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DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.
DDoS against mastodon.social today: Lots of users on that instance impacted, the rest of the Fediverse keeps on running, my instance doesn't really notice, messages will be queued up until mastodon.social is reachable again.
Both networks claim to be decentralised and federated. You decide
@jwildeboer Who the heck would attack mastodon social??
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@agowa338 The TL;DR for me is that the current ATProto/Atmosphere architecture still contains centralised elements that stand in the way of full federation. My suspicion is that this is by design.
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@jwildeboer
> My suspicion is that this is by design.You mean on purpose?
Probably.
Maybe just tunnel view, incapability of not being able to think outside the box ...
@jesuisatire ActivityPub/ActivityStreams, the protocol behind the fediverse, is a W3C open standard,. ATProto/Atmosphere is a corporate thing with no defined open process to update/change it. So I consider it to be a proprietary thing. Want to call that tunnel view, unable of thinking outside the box? Fine with me. @agowa338
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@jwildeboer it's only decebtralized if there's no Single Point if Failure.
Same goes for anything else:
- Regardless if #XMPP+#OMEMO
- If say
5222.deis down the only ones noticing are their users and their contacts.
- If say
- Or #PGP/MIME.
- And that is it's strenght.
In fact #eMail is so powerful that @delta / #deltaChat is getting popular in #Russia because even if they wanted to, (they don't, obviously!) they couldn't comply with #Roskomnadnozr's #Cyberfascism!
@kkarhan
Maybe that's why @delta is ruining itself by skipping email?And no, not going to discus this, I simply will not update #deltaChat anymore and in any case wait for a hardfork of it or learn to code if necessary.
- Regardless if #XMPP+#OMEMO
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@jwildeboer Eg. because of the growing decentralization, one issue that is coming up over there is people linking to their post from non-Bluesky apps.
And you can't use the "copy the URL into the search" trick we have on here.
So them making progress on decentralization is a double-edged sword, where the fediverse could have an advantage, if we continue working on smoothing some of the user experience challenges related to decentralization.
Just a thought.
@stefan
> if we continue working onUltimately this is about the engagement of the "work force", and I'd like to believe that the fedi with it's nearly 20 years of experience is way better positioned and has already proven to be enshitificationresistant.
Even the fact that the main guru has already left blue sky is just another proof, including the detail that he didn't came over here.
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@kkarhan
Maybe that's why @delta is ruining itself by skipping email?And no, not going to discus this, I simply will not update #deltaChat anymore and in any case wait for a hardfork of it or learn to code if necessary.
@jesuisatire @jwildeboer WDYM?
Last time I checked @delta still used #PGP/MIME with #IMAP & #SMTP…- The whole reason to use #deltaChat is to avoid having to setup yet another Server (Which is the prime reason against #XMPP+#OMEMO, #Zulip, #RicketChat and #Matrix)…
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DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.
DDoS against mastodon.social today: Lots of users on that instance impacted, the rest of the Fediverse keeps on running, my instance doesn't really notice, messages will be queued up until mastodon.social is reachable again.
Both networks claim to be decentralised and federated. You decide
@jwildeboer exactly! thats the difference between a decentralized protocol and a truly decentralized infrastructure: the size of the blast radius
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@jesuisatire ActivityPub/ActivityStreams, the protocol behind the fediverse, is a W3C open standard,. ATProto/Atmosphere is a corporate thing with no defined open process to update/change it. So I consider it to be a proprietary thing. Want to call that tunnel view, unable of thinking outside the box? Fine with me. @agowa338
@jwildeboer
> I consider it to be a proprietary thing.Of course it is, in any case my knowledge is simply not deep enough on those specifics to point them out. And it doesn't have to be.
Looking at the actors, the "experience" we all "have" with them by reading on the web what those actors did to become what they are today, adding the halloween papers and the FOSS evolution of openAI, choices and decisions are quite simple.
Ultimately the extraordinary part is the capability by mono sapiens to reinvent the wheel nearly every time they wake up instead of realizing that cooperation and learn to take that bitter pill of being only one of the many might be more difficult than creating a brand new project on github.
.. that's why it's so comfy to be a social bonobo like me.
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@jwildeboer I get people wanting to feel good about their decision to be here instead of on Bluesky, but given all the work going into building up independent ATProto infrastructure, I think we'll be better off focusing our energy elsewhere.
@stefan @jwildeboer I think technology is the least of their problem. Making the Atmosphere truly decentralized will require a major shift in power dynamics. I don't think you can build it around one dominant provider unless that provider purposely gives their position up. Is Bluesky going to do it with all the VC funding behind them? I don't think so. Not impossible, but also not very likely IMO. We'll be hearing about a lot of new ATProto services, how the ecosystem is flourishing etc, but then Bluesky will go down and so will most of the network because at the end of the day it will still be an ecosystem around one dominant provider.
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@jesuisatire ActivityPub/ActivityStreams, the protocol behind the fediverse, is a W3C open standard,. ATProto/Atmosphere is a corporate thing with no defined open process to update/change it. So I consider it to be a proprietary thing. Want to call that tunnel view, unable of thinking outside the box? Fine with me. @agowa338
It was shit out quite quickly and the main goal probably was deflection of liability or at best to allow integration with other bigtech entities like e.g. Facebook if we assume it was cooking for a while before it went public in twitter....
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@stefan @jwildeboer I think technology is the least of their problem. Making the Atmosphere truly decentralized will require a major shift in power dynamics. I don't think you can build it around one dominant provider unless that provider purposely gives their position up. Is Bluesky going to do it with all the VC funding behind them? I don't think so. Not impossible, but also not very likely IMO. We'll be hearing about a lot of new ATProto services, how the ecosystem is flourishing etc, but then Bluesky will go down and so will most of the network because at the end of the day it will still be an ecosystem around one dominant provider.
@sesivany Thanks to their last round of funding, the community has years to figure this all out.
From https://ionosphere.tv/talks/QKNkKMX:
> $800,000 a year to run the POPs ["point of presence, and it's basically like a co-location center"]
>
> [PDSes] cost about $600 a month each [totalling at $792,000/year for 110 of them]I'd just not worry too much about the Atmosphere and focus on making the fediverse safer and more welcoming.
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DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.
DDoS against mastodon.social today: Lots of users on that instance impacted, the rest of the Fediverse keeps on running, my instance doesn't really notice, messages will be queued up until mastodon.social is reachable again.
Both networks claim to be decentralised and federated. You decide
Just the other day I was saying what would happen if mastodon.social went down.
Jeez. I hope I didn't jinx it. Or inspire somebody to test my hypothesis.
Looks like my hypothesis was correct, though: mastosoc goes down but the rest of the federation keeps on tooting.
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@jesuisatire @jwildeboer WDYM?
Last time I checked @delta still used #PGP/MIME with #IMAP & #SMTP…- The whole reason to use #deltaChat is to avoid having to setup yet another Server (Which is the prime reason against #XMPP+#OMEMO, #Zulip, #RicketChat and #Matrix)…
Didn't Delta fork a bunch of email server software to form their own stack called “Chatmail”?
That sounds an awful lot like “yet another server” except with all the legacy baggage of email, most notably that it's an entire stack of yet-another-servers instead of just one (as in IRC, XMPP, etc).
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@jwildeboer Who the heck would attack mastodon social??
Probably the same jerks who keep attacking Codeberg and the Internet Archive.
Some people just want to see the Internet burn, I guess.
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It was shit out quite quickly and the main goal probably was deflection of liability or at best to allow integration with other bigtech entities like e.g. Facebook if we assume it was cooking for a while before it went public in twitter....
For me it looked like the back door interference with free speech in the arab spring made the twitter guru realize that only decentralization could lead to real free speech that ultimately has the goal of "power to the people".
The problem is that "power to the people" means being able to let loose in the first place, and for some (strange) reason there sleeps a Frodo in all of us (apparently).
So, sitting at the same ALL IN table in the restaurant at the end of the silicon valley one way street just makes you hear and feel the same things and vibes again and again, until they become true.
(for them, in their minds, their beings, their Idiocracyscale of their top ten most important people voted by their #TimeZeitGeistStream) -
For me it looked like the back door interference with free speech in the arab spring made the twitter guru realize that only decentralization could lead to real free speech that ultimately has the goal of "power to the people".
The problem is that "power to the people" means being able to let loose in the first place, and for some (strange) reason there sleeps a Frodo in all of us (apparently).
So, sitting at the same ALL IN table in the restaurant at the end of the silicon valley one way street just makes you hear and feel the same things and vibes again and again, until they become true.
(for them, in their minds, their beings, their Idiocracyscale of their top ten most important people voted by their #TimeZeitGeistStream)I think it was more about not wanting to moderate and esp. not wanting to comply with anti-hatespeech requirements and all...
You know your typical US bigtech liability deflection...
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Didn't Delta fork a bunch of email server software to form their own stack called “Chatmail”?
That sounds an awful lot like “yet another server” except with all the legacy baggage of email, most notably that it's an entire stack of yet-another-servers instead of just one (as in IRC, XMPP, etc).
@argv_minus_one
To be sincere, these questions go way into deep of technical observations, a moment where commoners like me just shut off and walk on.#Deltachat rules and becomes an option as long as normal people (DAU) install the APP, get asked for their email credentials, and yes even if those are gmail or hotmail, and become protected by the brute force of encryption.
full stopIn any case we are facing the same discussions we see (saw) with mastodon adoption or https.
There is only one main constitutional rule wen it comes to deal with the masses:
#KISS!Looks to me that the @delta crew went down the rabbit hole of specialization talking to each other about the extreme needs of extreme cases, maybe even exposed to some new version of some CIA\KGB handbook ..
@kkarhan @jwildeboer -
DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.
DDoS against mastodon.social today: Lots of users on that instance impacted, the rest of the Fediverse keeps on running, my instance doesn't really notice, messages will be queued up until mastodon.social is reachable again.
Both networks claim to be decentralised and federated. You decide
@jwildeboer “but fediverse is centralized too!!! it uh uhm some servers are on large cloud providers!!!! its just as centralized!!!!!!1!1!!!”
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DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.
DDoS against mastodon.social today: Lots of users on that instance impacted, the rest of the Fediverse keeps on running, my instance doesn't really notice, messages will be queued up until mastodon.social is reachable again.
Both networks claim to be decentralised and federated. You decide
@jwildeboer The Fediverse is a DDoS. A Distributed Defence of Service
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DDos (Distributed Denial of Service) attack against BlueSky a few days ago: The whole network goes down.
DDoS against mastodon.social today: Lots of users on that instance impacted, the rest of the Fediverse keeps on running, my instance doesn't really notice, messages will be queued up until mastodon.social is reachable again.
Both networks claim to be decentralised and federated. You decide
@jwildeboer I noticed it early, checked the status page for mastodon.social, and left mastodon alone.
Figured the admins had enough headaches and they did not need users constantly refreshing.
Also, posted a thank you to the admins.
All is well.
Because mastodon.
