Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@firefoxwebdevs I'm not a fan of this all or nothing approach to functionality. What happened to the paradigm of things being scope and/or time-limited, eg just for this page, for x minutes?
@scribe it isn't all or nothing (the currently winning option is granular control). This is the first time I've heard a request for AI to be disabled in a time-limited way. Tell me more about your use-case.
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@scribe it isn't all or nothing (the currently winning option is granular control). This is the first time I've heard a request for AI to be disabled in a time-limited way. Tell me more about your use-case.
@firefoxwebdevs I think it's less about use cases and more about general trust, as privacy often boils down to. If you're talking about an AI "kill switch", you're talking about trust in what's been defined as "AI", and trust in the browser developer as a whole.
Once definitions are murky, there's an area open for ongoing redefinition. One way to adopt a "private by default" approach is to follow what cookies do, for instance, and allow users to allow limits to the extents of permissions.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs there's a huge difference between calling out to an external llm service and using the translation-specific on-device models.
(If, hypothetically, llm's like chatgpt were not a thing, would people have such visceral reactions against the translatelocally models?)
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@firefoxwebdevs there's a huge difference between calling out to an external llm service and using the translation-specific on-device models.
(If, hypothetically, llm's like chatgpt were not a thing, would people have such visceral reactions against the translatelocally models?)
@unhammer a lot of folks in the replies & responders to the poll feel differently. I personally agree with you, but I want the kill switch to have broader appeal.
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@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs where did I say I'm uncomfortable with the name "kill switch"?
@jaffathecake @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs in the quoted post included as the reference
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@firefoxwebdevs I think it's less about use cases and more about general trust, as privacy often boils down to. If you're talking about an AI "kill switch", you're talking about trust in what's been defined as "AI", and trust in the browser developer as a whole.
Once definitions are murky, there's an area open for ongoing redefinition. One way to adopt a "private by default" approach is to follow what cookies do, for instance, and allow users to allow limits to the extents of permissions.
@scribe I'm not sure cookies are a great source of inspiration when it comes to privacy
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@jaffathecake @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs in the quoted post included as the reference
@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs but I didn't say that. Get your words out of my mouth.
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@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs but I didn't say that. Get your words out of my mouth.
@jaffathecake @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs
> I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name
those don't appear to be words of comfort
what is this "how dare you take 2+2 and get 4 I am outraged at your calumnies" shit
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@jaffathecake @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs
> I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name
those don't appear to be words of comfort
what is this "how dare you take 2+2 and get 4 I am outraged at your calumnies" shit
@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name because folks internally have said that. I expressed no discomfort with the name personally. I used it again in the poll post. I clearly have no personal issue with using it.
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@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name because folks internally have said that. I expressed no discomfort with the name personally. I used it again in the poll post. I clearly have no personal issue with using it.
@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs in fact, someone internally questioned me using "kill switch" in the post above, and I defended it, saying that a lot of folks I chatted to liked and understood the name.
Whilst it might not make it into Release Firefox, I think it's the right term to use in these discussions in the meantime.
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@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs in fact, someone internally questioned me using "kill switch" in the post above, and I defended it, saying that a lot of folks I chatted to liked and understood the name.
Whilst it might not make it into Release Firefox, I think it's the right term to use in these discussions in the meantime.
@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs I did not say I was personally uncomfortable with the term, because I am not personally uncomfortable with the term.
Please do not let your imagination run wild with this.
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@scribe I'm not sure cookies are a great source of inspiration when it comes to privacy
@firefoxwebdevs In the context of granular control they're quite good though? ie I can accept/delete them per domain as I like. I voted for the middle option as the only granular option, but granularity can be more fine-grained than that, is what I mean. And privacy is all about control over the granularity. Time-limited access tokens with very specific permissions are maybe a better analogy.
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@davidgerard @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs I did not say I was personally uncomfortable with the term, because I am not personally uncomfortable with the term.
Please do not let your imagination run wild with this.
@jaffathecake @davidgerard @mdavis@mastodon.social @firefoxwebdevs this is a real weird hill for you to die on
if you’re representing your employer and they’re uncomfortable with the kill switch naming, to the point where you keep encasing the term in scare quotes every time it’s used, then we can’t tell and frankly don’t care if you personally love the term. nobody’s here for Jake. do you understand that? we’re here because we’re dedicated Firefox users angry at the direction your employer has taken.
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@jaffathecake @davidgerard @mdavis@mastodon.social @firefoxwebdevs this is a real weird hill for you to die on
if you’re representing your employer and they’re uncomfortable with the kill switch naming, to the point where you keep encasing the term in scare quotes every time it’s used, then we can’t tell and frankly don’t care if you personally love the term. nobody’s here for Jake. do you understand that? we’re here because we’re dedicated Firefox users angry at the direction your employer has taken.
@zzt @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs this account will be shut down by the incoming AI CMO anyway as unauthorised marketing
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@jaffathecake @davidgerard @mdavis@mastodon.social @firefoxwebdevs this is a real weird hill for you to die on
if you’re representing your employer and they’re uncomfortable with the kill switch naming, to the point where you keep encasing the term in scare quotes every time it’s used, then we can’t tell and frankly don’t care if you personally love the term. nobody’s here for Jake. do you understand that? we’re here because we’re dedicated Firefox users angry at the direction your employer has taken.
@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs "note that Jake, in presenting the kill switch and calling it a kill switch and getting it into all the papers as a kill switch, says he's uncomfortable with the name" - I was called out by name directly and deliberately.
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@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs "note that Jake, in presenting the kill switch and calling it a kill switch and getting it into all the papers as a kill switch, says he's uncomfortable with the name" - I was called out by name directly and deliberately.
@jaffathecake @zzt @firefoxwebdevs i'm sure you'll reveal the culprit who hacked the account and posted it forthwith
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@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs "note that Jake, in presenting the kill switch and calling it a kill switch and getting it into all the papers as a kill switch, says he's uncomfortable with the name" - I was called out by name directly and deliberately.
@jaffathecake @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs yes Jake, because you’re professionally representing your employer when writing under a supposedly official account.
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@jaffathecake @zzt @firefoxwebdevs i'm sure you'll reveal the culprit who hacked the account and posted it forthwith
@davidgerard @zzt @firefoxwebdevs It's telling that you can't admit that you (deliberately?) misrepresented me to stir outrage.
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@jaffathecake @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs yes Jake, because you’re professionally representing your employer when writing under a supposedly official account.
@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs and I didn't say I'm uncomfortable with the name, which is the claim that was put directly to me. I think it's reasonable to push back against that false claim.
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@davidgerard @zzt @firefoxwebdevs It's telling that you can't admit that you (deliberately?) misrepresented me to stir outrage.
@jaffathecake @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs it’s telling that you can’t admit that you deliberately misrepresented community consensus to push horseshit into the browser I use
