So apparently nearly all students cheat with AI chatbots now and basically aren't learning anything https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/openai-chatgpt-ai-cheating-education-college-students-school.html
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So apparently nearly all students cheat with AI chatbots now and basically aren't learning anything https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/openai-chatgpt-ai-cheating-education-college-students-school.html
I'm grateful I got my education before these tools were available.
Still, part of this might be that education might be best if it's not actually based around grading, but working with students to actually be excited about learning
But there's no way such a worldview will be rolled out in time to survive this
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So apparently nearly all students cheat with AI chatbots now and basically aren't learning anything https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/openai-chatgpt-ai-cheating-education-college-students-school.html
I'm grateful I got my education before these tools were available.
Still, part of this might be that education might be best if it's not actually based around grading, but working with students to actually be excited about learning
But there's no way such a worldview will be rolled out in time to survive this
@cwebber@social.coop I think that education needs a massive overhaul. I am very opinionated on this topic because I am very intertwined with education. For starters I am a student, I have been a student and I've been a student in several different states throughout elementary school, middle school and highschool. To set the scene from Elementary to Middle I had only been at the same school for more than one school year once and that was 2nd-3rd grade. My grandmother is an elementary school teacher, my mother was a special ed teacher, a special ed director and a is a certified counselor. I do contract IT for multiple school districts within my state.
I think that schools failed to adequately consider the internet. I know that there were people who understood the implications - that with access to so much information at once you need to focus less on memorizing specific information and more on filtering out that information. Figuring out what are reliable sources of information and what aren't. A lot of places never really did that, I mean I was told back in the day that I could "always" trust a .org domain because they had to be an organization. Imagine my shock when I made an account for a domain registrar and found out anyone can get a .org domain. I was told that I could always trust .gov domains and that I could cite them freely. I remember citing cdc.gov directly for a paper in hs I did about the addictiveness of nicotine and the concern regarding flavored vapes.
A lot of curriculum is memorization based. I remember some of my hs math units felt like "memorize this formula, use it and give me the answer". My homework where I had 10+ of the same problems and needed to plug those into a special formula wasn't really teaching me much. My physics class was sometimes similar. I'm thankful both of my teachers provided the formula on the tests (well, my physics teacher allowed us to bring the formula in and I believe they were open note. my math teacher had the formulas above the problem). My history classes were much worse though, remembering SPECIFIC dates of specific incidents without much around the implications. It didn't really feel like I was learning much from history. I'd just memorize the date and forget it after we moved onto the next unit. There were not really much reflections such as "How did this specific event impact things at the time" until like my junior year of highschool. Hell, I had to memorize vocabulary words all the way until Jr year. My freshman and sophomore English teachers would hand us these lists of vocab words (I remember it feeling weird even then!)
This isn't entirely a problem to blame on teachers. Sure there exists a lot of shitty teachers who do what I call "Teach by the textbook" where if you ask them "How do i do x?" they'll reply "It's in chapter 14 of your book". The teachers who give you online homework through Pearson etc. That existed before but when we hit COVID and schools went 'virtual' they realized that they can stack a lot of online classes and not have to pay for more faculty members. I know a lot of colleges that I've attended where I had a professor who had a virtual class, they were a professor from another college and they taught at like 3 other colleges with the same online class. Impossible to reach them, if you ask for help they never have time and it's just this churn. I can totally see why kids look at this and decide "I'm using the slop machine, if they can't even dedicate time for me...".
There's also the angle of teachers with good ideas of how to make their classes more interactive and engaging... are often restricted by school administration. This takes form in multiple ways. Most common has got to be a lack of funding. My mother and several of her teacher friends who were my teachers in HS would pay out of pocket for basic classroom supplies like pens and pencils. My physics teacher spent money out of pocket on scientific equipment for our lessons. It's hard to get your hands a hold of something interactive. My class was the last class in my highschool to perform physical dissections in biology because it was cheaper for the school district to do virtual labs that took the fun out of getting up close and personal you know learning the material. I don't judge the kids who had to take virtual dissections because they were grossed out, I'm glad virtual dissections are an option I just wish it wasn't used as a cost saving measure because it fucks over students that want to physically inspect things.
My first chemistry course was all online, I was given the results of experiments and basically had to do a bunch of calculations like unit conversion. When I went in person and actually did those experiments... using my own numbers in those calculations... I learned better. There's a complete lack of nuance when it comes to personalizing education for each individual student. School districts do not want to pay for that, instead they try to make everything uniform and shove people in the same box. It is rare that you are allowed to modify curriculum that much (my mom was frustrated by this. she had the expectation that you know she'd get to pick the books and stuff she taught from... but she didn't. it was basically handed to her and she had to teach what she was given) -
@cwebber@social.coop I think that education needs a massive overhaul. I am very opinionated on this topic because I am very intertwined with education. For starters I am a student, I have been a student and I've been a student in several different states throughout elementary school, middle school and highschool. To set the scene from Elementary to Middle I had only been at the same school for more than one school year once and that was 2nd-3rd grade. My grandmother is an elementary school teacher, my mother was a special ed teacher, a special ed director and a is a certified counselor. I do contract IT for multiple school districts within my state.
I think that schools failed to adequately consider the internet. I know that there were people who understood the implications - that with access to so much information at once you need to focus less on memorizing specific information and more on filtering out that information. Figuring out what are reliable sources of information and what aren't. A lot of places never really did that, I mean I was told back in the day that I could "always" trust a .org domain because they had to be an organization. Imagine my shock when I made an account for a domain registrar and found out anyone can get a .org domain. I was told that I could always trust .gov domains and that I could cite them freely. I remember citing cdc.gov directly for a paper in hs I did about the addictiveness of nicotine and the concern regarding flavored vapes.
A lot of curriculum is memorization based. I remember some of my hs math units felt like "memorize this formula, use it and give me the answer". My homework where I had 10+ of the same problems and needed to plug those into a special formula wasn't really teaching me much. My physics class was sometimes similar. I'm thankful both of my teachers provided the formula on the tests (well, my physics teacher allowed us to bring the formula in and I believe they were open note. my math teacher had the formulas above the problem). My history classes were much worse though, remembering SPECIFIC dates of specific incidents without much around the implications. It didn't really feel like I was learning much from history. I'd just memorize the date and forget it after we moved onto the next unit. There were not really much reflections such as "How did this specific event impact things at the time" until like my junior year of highschool. Hell, I had to memorize vocabulary words all the way until Jr year. My freshman and sophomore English teachers would hand us these lists of vocab words (I remember it feeling weird even then!)
This isn't entirely a problem to blame on teachers. Sure there exists a lot of shitty teachers who do what I call "Teach by the textbook" where if you ask them "How do i do x?" they'll reply "It's in chapter 14 of your book". The teachers who give you online homework through Pearson etc. That existed before but when we hit COVID and schools went 'virtual' they realized that they can stack a lot of online classes and not have to pay for more faculty members. I know a lot of colleges that I've attended where I had a professor who had a virtual class, they were a professor from another college and they taught at like 3 other colleges with the same online class. Impossible to reach them, if you ask for help they never have time and it's just this churn. I can totally see why kids look at this and decide "I'm using the slop machine, if they can't even dedicate time for me...".
There's also the angle of teachers with good ideas of how to make their classes more interactive and engaging... are often restricted by school administration. This takes form in multiple ways. Most common has got to be a lack of funding. My mother and several of her teacher friends who were my teachers in HS would pay out of pocket for basic classroom supplies like pens and pencils. My physics teacher spent money out of pocket on scientific equipment for our lessons. It's hard to get your hands a hold of something interactive. My class was the last class in my highschool to perform physical dissections in biology because it was cheaper for the school district to do virtual labs that took the fun out of getting up close and personal you know learning the material. I don't judge the kids who had to take virtual dissections because they were grossed out, I'm glad virtual dissections are an option I just wish it wasn't used as a cost saving measure because it fucks over students that want to physically inspect things.
My first chemistry course was all online, I was given the results of experiments and basically had to do a bunch of calculations like unit conversion. When I went in person and actually did those experiments... using my own numbers in those calculations... I learned better. There's a complete lack of nuance when it comes to personalizing education for each individual student. School districts do not want to pay for that, instead they try to make everything uniform and shove people in the same box. It is rare that you are allowed to modify curriculum that much (my mom was frustrated by this. she had the expectation that you know she'd get to pick the books and stuff she taught from... but she didn't. it was basically handed to her and she had to teach what she was given)@cwebber@social.coop really wish i didnt exhaust all my writing spoons because theres so much more i want to get into. mainly standardized tests, calculator monopolies (noo u cant use the free desmos it HAS TO BE A TI CALCULATOR as part of the syllabus), the fact that most things for education just feel like they're siphoning from edu instead of like feeding back into it. microsoft, google and apple being the worst vendors ever to exist in edu just sloughing off probably hundreds of millions of dollars from academic institutions
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@cwebber@social.coop I think that education needs a massive overhaul. I am very opinionated on this topic because I am very intertwined with education. For starters I am a student, I have been a student and I've been a student in several different states throughout elementary school, middle school and highschool. To set the scene from Elementary to Middle I had only been at the same school for more than one school year once and that was 2nd-3rd grade. My grandmother is an elementary school teacher, my mother was a special ed teacher, a special ed director and a is a certified counselor. I do contract IT for multiple school districts within my state.
I think that schools failed to adequately consider the internet. I know that there were people who understood the implications - that with access to so much information at once you need to focus less on memorizing specific information and more on filtering out that information. Figuring out what are reliable sources of information and what aren't. A lot of places never really did that, I mean I was told back in the day that I could "always" trust a .org domain because they had to be an organization. Imagine my shock when I made an account for a domain registrar and found out anyone can get a .org domain. I was told that I could always trust .gov domains and that I could cite them freely. I remember citing cdc.gov directly for a paper in hs I did about the addictiveness of nicotine and the concern regarding flavored vapes.
A lot of curriculum is memorization based. I remember some of my hs math units felt like "memorize this formula, use it and give me the answer". My homework where I had 10+ of the same problems and needed to plug those into a special formula wasn't really teaching me much. My physics class was sometimes similar. I'm thankful both of my teachers provided the formula on the tests (well, my physics teacher allowed us to bring the formula in and I believe they were open note. my math teacher had the formulas above the problem). My history classes were much worse though, remembering SPECIFIC dates of specific incidents without much around the implications. It didn't really feel like I was learning much from history. I'd just memorize the date and forget it after we moved onto the next unit. There were not really much reflections such as "How did this specific event impact things at the time" until like my junior year of highschool. Hell, I had to memorize vocabulary words all the way until Jr year. My freshman and sophomore English teachers would hand us these lists of vocab words (I remember it feeling weird even then!)
This isn't entirely a problem to blame on teachers. Sure there exists a lot of shitty teachers who do what I call "Teach by the textbook" where if you ask them "How do i do x?" they'll reply "It's in chapter 14 of your book". The teachers who give you online homework through Pearson etc. That existed before but when we hit COVID and schools went 'virtual' they realized that they can stack a lot of online classes and not have to pay for more faculty members. I know a lot of colleges that I've attended where I had a professor who had a virtual class, they were a professor from another college and they taught at like 3 other colleges with the same online class. Impossible to reach them, if you ask for help they never have time and it's just this churn. I can totally see why kids look at this and decide "I'm using the slop machine, if they can't even dedicate time for me...".
There's also the angle of teachers with good ideas of how to make their classes more interactive and engaging... are often restricted by school administration. This takes form in multiple ways. Most common has got to be a lack of funding. My mother and several of her teacher friends who were my teachers in HS would pay out of pocket for basic classroom supplies like pens and pencils. My physics teacher spent money out of pocket on scientific equipment for our lessons. It's hard to get your hands a hold of something interactive. My class was the last class in my highschool to perform physical dissections in biology because it was cheaper for the school district to do virtual labs that took the fun out of getting up close and personal you know learning the material. I don't judge the kids who had to take virtual dissections because they were grossed out, I'm glad virtual dissections are an option I just wish it wasn't used as a cost saving measure because it fucks over students that want to physically inspect things.
My first chemistry course was all online, I was given the results of experiments and basically had to do a bunch of calculations like unit conversion. When I went in person and actually did those experiments... using my own numbers in those calculations... I learned better. There's a complete lack of nuance when it comes to personalizing education for each individual student. School districts do not want to pay for that, instead they try to make everything uniform and shove people in the same box. It is rare that you are allowed to modify curriculum that much (my mom was frustrated by this. she had the expectation that you know she'd get to pick the books and stuff she taught from... but she didn't. it was basically handed to her and she had to teach what she was given)@puppygirlhornypost2@transfem.social @cwebber@social.coop Capitalism ruins everything :reisen_smug:
Thanks for sharing - so there is some advantages in being old. We had little Gas Burners Built into the Desk in our Physics Class. (8-9 Year Swiss School)
Teacher could turn on the Gas :blobCatGooglyEyesNotLikeThis::blobcathero:
No clue how that works in the US
Switzerland has:
6 Years Primary
3 Y. Secondary
- then it depends if you go academic or practical (4Y Practical Diplom at a Company with 1 Day School a week)
Academic
4 Y. Tertiary
4-6 Y. University (Bachelor and Master)
? Doctor -
M monkee@other.li shared this topic
