Unfortunately, Bluesky is unavailable in Mississippi right now, due to a new state law that requires age verification for all users.
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@quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app I have seen the link you sent. The only client on there that doesn't send me to bsky.app if I want to sign up is blacksky.community, though it requires an invite code.
@Gargron Red Dwarf doesn't use Bsky if you're not on their PDSs as well. Blacksky is early and is already the biggest non-Bsky non-bot PDS hoster and has built the whole ATProto stack from scratch in Rust. And there's more. This goes way deeper than you think it does.
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@Gargron Red Dwarf doesn't use Bsky if you're not on their PDSs as well. Blacksky is early and is already the biggest non-Bsky non-bot PDS hoster and has built the whole ATProto stack from scratch in Rust. And there's more. This goes way deeper than you think it does.
@quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Red Dwarf doesn't have a sign up link and nothing loads on the site. But you're right, it is early. Everything is new, shiny, and full of venture-capital funded marketing right now. We'll see how all of this architecture turns out in a few years, when the investors come calling.
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@quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Red Dwarf doesn't have a sign up link and nothing loads on the site. But you're right, it is early. Everything is new, shiny, and full of venture-capital funded marketing right now. We'll see how all of this architecture turns out in a few years, when the investors come calling.
@Gargron So are we agreeing that ATProto is decentralized? Because that's different than the fear of what funding will potentially lead to one day in the future.
And if you fear that, then shouldn't we triple down on making sure that the PBC doesn't hold all the power before that happens, do adversarial interop, and make sure it's in it's ideal decentralized state asap?
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@Gargron So are we agreeing that ATProto is decentralized? Because that's different than the fear of what funding will potentially lead to one day in the future.
And if you fear that, then shouldn't we triple down on making sure that the PBC doesn't hold all the power before that happens, do adversarial interop, and make sure it's in it's ideal decentralized state asap?
@quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Strictly speaking, the question is if Bluesky is decentralized, not if AT Proto is decentralized. Second of all, I am not sure why I should "triple down on making sure" anything about Bluesky or AT Proto. I work on improving the fediverse. The place that is already built with adversarial interoperability.
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@quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Strictly speaking, the question is if Bluesky is decentralized, not if AT Proto is decentralized. Second of all, I am not sure why I should "triple down on making sure" anything about Bluesky or AT Proto. I work on improving the fediverse. The place that is already built with adversarial interoperability.
@Gargron @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app I personally believe that if you are a founder and lead programmer of a decentralized social media platform, you should be absolutely sure what you are talking about before you start comparing the protocol that you use with others, because you are effectively representing your own project and have a lot of responsibilities and eyes on you as a result. If someone believes that you are misinformed and says so, then it would make sense to check so that you are sure that you are not using your platform to spread misinformation.
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@Gargron @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app I personally believe that if you are a founder and lead programmer of a decentralized social media platform, you should be absolutely sure what you are talking about before you start comparing the protocol that you use with others, because you are effectively representing your own project and have a lot of responsibilities and eyes on you as a result. If someone believes that you are misinformed and says so, then it would make sense to check so that you are sure that you are not using your platform to spread misinformation.
@eblu @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app What do you believe I misunderstand?
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@eblu @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app What do you believe I misunderstand?
@Gargron @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app You seem to, from what I'm seeing, have a basic understanding of how the AT protocol works but not how it is decentralized in practice, and I think you might be confusing it with ActivityPub's model of distribution, but I could be wrong. A lot of us in this thread have been trying to explain this but you seem to be dismissive about it instead of understanding. I totally understand as someone who was also like this but it helps to read up about the subject from those who currently work with the protocol itself.
I also feel that you believe that Mastodon is above the law because it doesn't have any official presence in areas where age-verification laws exist, however the Mississippi law that Bluesky is protesting, for example, applies nondiscriminately to all platforms, regardless of where they are based.
I really don't want to come off as saying that Bluesky is a better platform, rather that I want to hold you accountable for any "not invented here" biases that you might have.
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@Gargron @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app You seem to, from what I'm seeing, have a basic understanding of how the AT protocol works but not how it is decentralized in practice, and I think you might be confusing it with ActivityPub's model of distribution, but I could be wrong. A lot of us in this thread have been trying to explain this but you seem to be dismissive about it instead of understanding. I totally understand as someone who was also like this but it helps to read up about the subject from those who currently work with the protocol itself.
I also feel that you believe that Mastodon is above the law because it doesn't have any official presence in areas where age-verification laws exist, however the Mississippi law that Bluesky is protesting, for example, applies nondiscriminately to all platforms, regardless of where they are based.
I really don't want to come off as saying that Bluesky is a better platform, rather that I want to hold you accountable for any "not invented here" biases that you might have.
@eblu @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Two separate discussions here. I'll start with the second one. This isn't about Mastodon the organization. Mastodon gGmbH is certainly not above the law. But even if Mastodon gGmbH was legally forced to block users from Mississippi, the only thing we could do is block them from mastodon.social. The fediverse does not have an owner that can make this call. Every operator decides this individually.
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@eblu @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Two separate discussions here. I'll start with the second one. This isn't about Mastodon the organization. Mastodon gGmbH is certainly not above the law. But even if Mastodon gGmbH was legally forced to block users from Mississippi, the only thing we could do is block them from mastodon.social. The fediverse does not have an owner that can make this call. Every operator decides this individually.
@Gargron @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Yep, there's nothing really incorrect here (outside of that Mastodon is also responsible for mastodon.online). I should mention that this is also what Bluesky is essentially doing; they've blocked off access to the frontend that they control, while leaving the user data and relays that they host accessible. Anything built on their protocol can still communicate with it, and they do not have to implement geo-blocking because Bluesky does not control them.
I do understand your concern, however; there's nothing stopping them from outright blocking anything independently operated from pulling from their relays or directly from their PDSes themselves. But the same could be said about Mastodon instances through the practice of defederation.
Bluesky technically has the upper hand here because they architected their protocol in a way where each user is identified by a decentralized ID instead of a URI tied to a specific hostname, and full data portability is strictly specified, something that Mastodon only partially has an analog to, however it still remains a social issue because most people don't really want to move off of Bluesky servers at this time, or are even aware that it's an option.
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@Gargron @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app Yep, there's nothing really incorrect here (outside of that Mastodon is also responsible for mastodon.online). I should mention that this is also what Bluesky is essentially doing; they've blocked off access to the frontend that they control, while leaving the user data and relays that they host accessible. Anything built on their protocol can still communicate with it, and they do not have to implement geo-blocking because Bluesky does not control them.
I do understand your concern, however; there's nothing stopping them from outright blocking anything independently operated from pulling from their relays or directly from their PDSes themselves. But the same could be said about Mastodon instances through the practice of defederation.
Bluesky technically has the upper hand here because they architected their protocol in a way where each user is identified by a decentralized ID instead of a URI tied to a specific hostname, and full data portability is strictly specified, something that Mastodon only partially has an analog to, however it still remains a social issue because most people don't really want to move off of Bluesky servers at this time, or are even aware that it's an option.
@eblu @quillmatiq @jack @laurenshof @jsit @bsky.app The major difference between AT Proto and ActivityPub is that in ActivityPub, nodes communicate directly with each other, without relying on a third party. Mastodon (as an organization) could disappear along with mastodon.social overnight, and the fediverse would continue to function flawlessly (although you'd stop getting cool new software updates from us, until someone else stepped in).
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